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11-04-2009, 05:21 PM
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You look scrumptious!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Living at large....
Posts: 10,178
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
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Originally Posted by fubzeppelin
But acceptance is not the issue here. The issue is equal standing under the law. If you aim to rid the world of intolerance then you are in a losing battle.
That doesn't matter. Some people find black people offensive, but that doesnt mean that they should not be afforded the same rights as everyone else.
I know many homosexuals and they are all different, just like all other human beings. And the push for equal rights has nothing to do with acceptance from all of society, just there due acceptance under the Consitution.
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I got involved in the conversation just to explain my take on what the "gay agenda" might be. Lucifer asked LikeArnold to explain what it was so I chimed in.
You say acceptance is not the issue here, but again, I brought it up in the context of what the gay agenda might be. I've already said that gays should have all the rights afforded heterosexuals.
But I'm also saying that if they want more than that, they're not going to get it just because they want it.
__________________
In the vastness of everything, in the book of existence, how much space would you take up?
The chains that appear to enslave us are made of paper.
You can't paint the outside of your house and expect the living room to look any different.
You are not your conditioned thoughts.
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11-04-2009, 05:21 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,480
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler
Respectfully I disagree. In a heterosexual marriage children can happen "by accident" in a homosexual one it would most definitely be a planned event.
Considering the costs for raising children, I have no problem with tax breaks for married couples with children. It has been a traditional arrangement throughout U.S. history and I have no problem with it because it benefits the children.
Homosexual couples would have to plan having children because they cannot reproduce without help -- they have the opportunity to weigh the costs and whether or not they can afford raising a child before it happens. They would not suddenly become pregnant without warning.
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Furthermore, it's not about being penalized financially because of children and then getting a break----
-----tax benefits for married couples is about producing new citizens---read: more taxpayers.
__________________
“to see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle"
--George Orwell, Animal Farm
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11-04-2009, 05:22 PM
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An Objector to the Cult of Surfaces
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Within the Splendor of Penumbra
Posts: 9,955
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
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Originally Posted by LikeArnold
Then why are "Gays" beyond criticism? You have yet to criticize anything gays do to themselves. If you cannot recognize the obvious damage they do to each other then you cannot be trusted around other people's children.
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Highly overblown baseless rhetoric; empty and devoid of substance.
OM
__________________
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
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11-04-2009, 05:27 PM
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You look scrumptious!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Living at large....
Posts: 10,178
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
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Originally Posted by Bolt Slip
You are exactly wrong.
Marriage is a definite something---a contract or union--between a man and a woman. That is what marriage is---"___________ between a man and a woman."
People want to keep the definition but change the participants---but chaning the participants changes the definition.
It's like lookiing at a marriage and calling the man the "wife" and the woman the "husband".
Doesn't work---because by definition the "wife" is a female.
As I said---whatever this new creation is between two men or two women---it IS NOT marriage.
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Here is the definition of "marriage" from the online Webster dictionary.
Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3 : an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>
__________________
In the vastness of everything, in the book of existence, how much space would you take up?
The chains that appear to enslave us are made of paper.
You can't paint the outside of your house and expect the living room to look any different.
You are not your conditioned thoughts.
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11-04-2009, 05:28 PM
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An Objector to the Cult of Surfaces
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Within the Splendor of Penumbra
Posts: 9,955
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
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Originally Posted by juggler
Why should I be asked to pay even more taxes so gay people can claim all the benefits of married people?
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And yet you haven't even demonstrated how it is that "paying taxes" exclusively for hetero marriages has benefitted you either.
Don't like gay marriage? Don't marry one.
OM
__________________
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
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11-04-2009, 05:32 PM
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You look scrumptious!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Living at large....
Posts: 10,178
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
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Originally Posted by callache
You got it backwards.
They were/ARE treated like pariahs.
Some of the comments over the years here on this forum illustrate that very explicitly. 
All they want is to be accepted as HUMAN beings, with the SAME rights.
There is no "gay agenda", only a HUMAN agenda.  |
Good luck on that.
__________________
In the vastness of everything, in the book of existence, how much space would you take up?
The chains that appear to enslave us are made of paper.
You can't paint the outside of your house and expect the living room to look any different.
You are not your conditioned thoughts.
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11-04-2009, 05:34 PM
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An Objector to the Cult of Surfaces
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Within the Splendor of Penumbra
Posts: 9,955
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by juggler
Respectfully I disagree. In a heterosexual marriage children can happen "by accident" in a homosexual one it would most definitely be a planned event.
Considering the costs for raising children, I have no problem with tax breaks for married couples with children. It has been a traditional arrangement throughout U.S. history and I have no problem with it because it benefits the children.
Homosexual couples would have to plan having children because they cannot reproduce without help -- they have the opportunity to weigh the costs and whether or not they can afford raising a child before it happens. They would not suddenly become pregnant without warning.
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Nonsense. Tax breaks are for raising children, not "breeding" children.
How does paying taxes exclusively towards hetero marriages benefit you, personally?
OM
__________________
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
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11-04-2009, 05:35 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,480
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by hermit
Here is the definition of "marriage" from the online Webster dictionary.
Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage
2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities
3 : an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>
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Tell me, Hermit...What do you think Webster's had as a listing for marriage a few years ago?
Do you think they changed their definition of marriage?
Why do you think they changed their definition of marriage?
__________________
“to see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle"
--George Orwell, Animal Farm
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11-04-2009, 05:38 PM
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You look scrumptious!
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Living at large....
Posts: 10,178
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt Slip
Tell me, Hermit...What do you think Webster's had as a listing for marriage a few years ago?
Do you think they changed their definition of marriage?
Why do you think they changed their definition of marriage?
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They changed their definition to reflect contemporary society.
__________________
In the vastness of everything, in the book of existence, how much space would you take up?
The chains that appear to enslave us are made of paper.
You can't paint the outside of your house and expect the living room to look any different.
You are not your conditioned thoughts.
|
11-04-2009, 05:40 PM
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An Objector to the Cult of Surfaces
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Within the Splendor of Penumbra
Posts: 9,955
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by fubzeppelin
What if the gay couple adopts? Should they not ge support for caring for a child?
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Apparently tax breaks and benefits are reserved solely for those who breed children, not those who raise them.
OM
__________________
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
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11-04-2009, 05:45 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,480
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by hermit
They changed their definition to reflect contemporary society.
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Thank you for proving my point.
Marriage is one thing. People are trying to turn it into another. Say it's good, say it's bad. But admit what you are doing.
__________________
“to see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle"
--George Orwell, Animal Farm
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11-04-2009, 05:48 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,480
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaMan
Apparently tax breaks and benefits are reserved solely for those who breed children, not those who raise them.
OM
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Nonsense. Ever hear of the word "dependent" in regards to taxes?
Look---marriages by and large produce children. Homosexual relationships by and large produce no children.
Children are future taxpayers. Every single person in this country personally benefits from the taxes produced by this process.
__________________
“to see what is in front of one’s nose needs a constant struggle"
--George Orwell, Animal Farm
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11-04-2009, 05:51 PM
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An Objector to the Cult of Surfaces
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Within the Splendor of Penumbra
Posts: 9,955
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt Slip
-----tax benefits for married couples is about producing new citizens---read: more taxpayers.
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Please point me to the section in the tax code which discusses this.
Thanks.
OM
__________________
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
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11-04-2009, 05:54 PM
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An Objector to the Cult of Surfaces
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Within the Splendor of Penumbra
Posts: 9,955
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolt Slip
Tell me, Hermit...What do you think Webster's had as a listing for marriage a few years ago?
Do you think they changed their definition of marriage?
Why do you think they changed their definition of marriage?
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It's called evolving over time; just like everything else.
Learn to adapt, or fall to the wayside.
OM
__________________
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 9:5-6
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11-04-2009, 05:54 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mexico
Posts: 758
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Re: Voters Defeat "Gay Marriage" at the ballot box in Maine
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAH-JUR
This isn't a right-wing/left-wing issue. It is a religious issue that supersedes party politics. I agree that the GOP has been inundated by archaic religious zealots, but that isn't the conflict where these lines are drawn. That threshold is born from within the religious institutions and their followers' superficial exclusivity of ignorance.
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It's a moral issue, which doesn't necessarily make it religious. Yes, I know, archaic morals, but morals nonetheless.
Moral relativism in action.
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